MEADOWS BLOG

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Winter Forecast A Good One for Skiers and Snowboarders (with Video Podcast)

The Oregon chapter of the American Meteorological Society held its 16th Annual Winter Weather Meeting Friday at OMSI. This is the event where meteorologists and climatologists predict what the winter will bring to the Northwest. And there is great news for skiers and snowboarders. Play the video to listen to the experts share their winter forecast.

The experts examine the patterns of current data and indicators to create analogs – to find winters in the past that shared these characteristics going into this winter. They then review those winters and predict when the cold weather should arrive, whether the season generally will be above or below average in temperature and precipitation, and take a guess at any extraordinary weather events which may occur. There is a lot of educated guessing, but it’s all based on science.

Steve Todd, the Meteorologist In Charge for the National Weather Service in Portland says strong La Nina conditions last season produced a record breaker in terms of snowfall on Mt. Hood – Meadows accumulated 780 inches from October through May. Going into this winter the ocean temperatures are dropping again, moving from neutral to weak La Nina. La Nina is defined as unusually cold ocean temperatures in the Equatorial Pacific. La Ninas historically produce winters with above average snow pack in the mountains and more consistent snowfall throughout the winter season.

Kyle Dittmer is a Hydrologist – Meterologist for the Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish Commission. He says this will be a great winter for salmon and snow sliders. He predicts a “wild” opening to the season with a heavy blast in November and above average snowpack this winter. Kyle also speculates that we could have our first back-to-back La Nina winters since the 1970s and that “we’re way overdue.”

Pete Parsons Meteorologist for the Oregon Department of Agriculture says the years that have had a similar tropical ocean temperatures to this year saw above average snowpack in the mountains. Pete also predicts a big start to the season with  significant mountain storms opening Mt. Hood Meadows before Thanksgiving.

Pete Parsons Winter 9008 - 09 Forecast

George Taylor, retired State Climatologist and Founder of Applied Climate Services also sees an early start in November this year for the ski season which should have an above average snowpack in the mountains. He also sees a long-range cycle of Pacific Ocean cooling which he believes will produce above average snowpack for our mountain for the next 15 to 20 years! 

George Taylor's Winter 2008-09 Forecast Bottom Line

For more details you can download the individual presentations from the AMS website.

The expert consensus is a strong early (pre-Thanksgiving) opening to the season which will have above average snowpack. What more could we ask for?

So now that you’ve heard from the experts, what do you think will happen this winter? Let’s have some fun here – take a guess on the following:

What day will Meadows open for the season, and what will the snowpack measured at the telemetry at the bottom of Mt. Hood Express be?

How much snow do you think we’ll get total this season at Meadows – remembering that we set a record of 780 inches last year, well above our average of 430 inches.

We look forward to hearing from you, and, based on what the expert forecasters say, we will see you on the mountain soon!

Meadows Team

Comments

Boarder93 said:

oh yeah first one to make a comment! glad to hear the winter forecast is looking pretty darn fine for this year. i predict that the opening to MHM will be friday or saturday the 14 or 15 =) and i predict that the annual snow fall will be around 530 to 550 inches! thanks for posting this . just got me more phsyched for this season!!!!!

Meadows reply:

Boarder93: First to post - first on the lift? Good luck with the guesses - early would be great!

--Meadows Team

# October 25, 2008 2:38 PM

Gregxd said:

Woot! I was hoping that this year would be a good one :]. I think that meadows will open on the 21st still and the annual snow fall will be like 600 inches.

Can't wait for the season to start!

Meadows reply:

Gregxd: We like your thinking in terms of snowfall. We've had three consecutive above average snowfall seasons - makes you think that George Taylor's observation and prediction of a cold winter cycle for Pacific Northwest the next 15 to 20 years has merit!

--Meadows Team

# October 25, 2008 6:50 PM

rando said:

I hope all this excitement doesn't start with a Hwy 30 washout or some other calamity.  This desire to see what the future holds is bizarre, just take it as it comes and relax.  It is this same excitement that leads to traffic jams and accidents on the way to the mountain that YOU discourage.  So lets not get too into when there will be enough snow to damage the bases of $500 dollar board(s) while we try to find the few spots with enough coverage to slide down.  I suppose the upside to the recent economic turmoil will be lots of extra days NOT working to be at the mountain riding but of course that will be by those of us who have no cash for food or other services.  Anyway, I hope its a great season but as in years past please don't put any faith in those charlatans and snake oil salesmen who think they can tell you what mother nature will bring.  Could be a fabulous early opening with a warmup in December that melts all the early snow and then a late season dump that leaves us skiing into June after horrible mid season conditions.  If I get 4 days of light deep sometime this year that will be good I will take more but not counting on it.  Good time everyone!!

Meadows reply:

rando: Sounds like you can use an "altitude adjustment" - a few days carving some turns (hopefully in a deep early season snowpack) will do us all some good! We appreciate your advice regarding traveling to and from the mountain. It is fascinating how much demand there is at the beginning of the season, when the snowpack can be less than a 1/4 of what we have at the end of a good season. But that's what being away from such a beautiful and spectacular place as Meadows for six months will do to you. We're looking forward to everyone getting back to the mountain, driving safely and courteously of course.

We'd also like to use this opportunity to remind season pass holders whose groups are completed to get their pictures taken in advance, either at the Clackamas Sales Office or at the Ski Area. The times are posted on our web site. We'll be in Hood River Sunday, November 2 at the Hood River Inn. And we'll also be at the Ski Show November 14 - 16, however, if the lifts are operating that weekend, our ability to take pictures at the ski show will be limited, as the majority of our picture taking system will be at the mountain. So there's a heads up for everyone!

--Meadows Team

# October 26, 2008 8:34 PM

Grim said:

OK, that blog got me totally stoked to get the season going!

Pray for snow, people!

Opening Day Prediction: Nov. 27 (Happy Thanksgiving!)

Total Snowfall: 490 inches

Meadows reply:

Grim: Thanks for the "ungrim" forecast - 40+ feet of snow would be fantastic!

--Meadows Team

# October 29, 2008 7:45 AM

intelisevil said:

A little comment for 'rando' . . .

MHM just held their Job Fair this last weekend.

Free sliding and some money in your pocket?  If you've really got the free time you're talking about, this could be just what you need!!!

Here's hoping for an early opening.

Meadows reply:

intelisevil: We're hoping for an early opening as well, paticularly after talking to so many great candidates at the job fair! We are very impressed wtih the quality of the individuals applying for positions at Meadows this season and can't wait to get things open! If you missed the job fair you can still contact our human resources department - check out the jobs page.

--Meadows Team

# October 29, 2008 9:59 AM

mary said:

so it may snow this sunday up there  yeh  We are getting 3 adult, one teen and two kids season passes at the show on November 14  cant wait--- It will be great this year!!!

Meadows reply:

mary: Great to hear from you - we're watching the weather closely as well, particularly after the news that the "analog years" that is, seasons in the past which have had similar weather characteristics leading into the season, had mild weather through October which snapped in November. There's a possibility that the ski are will be open during the Portland Ski Show. That will affect the number of cameras we'll have at the show as we'll be taking pictures at both locations. See you at the show and on the mountain soon!

--Meadows Team

# October 29, 2008 10:41 AM

Deep Powder said:

Let it snow, let it snow.  It should be another good year on the mountain and I am personally hoping for some early Heather Canyon days this year!  The first good snow fall could be coming next week but it certainly won't be any where near enough to ride yet; maybe the 21st of November as I previously predicted.

Meadows reply:

Deep Powder: Thanks for the prediction. When we get enough snow for quality riding and skiing, we'll be ready to go!

--Meadows Team

# October 29, 2008 1:50 PM

Boarder93 said:

already posted but couldnt help but to task this question...

How much snow is needed for meadows to open with good quality skiing and riding? as i recal last year they opened with what 14 inches at the base... but of course im looking for full operations.

Meadows reply:

Boarder93: We did open on a very limited basis last year on Thanksgiving weekend - initially we were going to operate only the Buttercup lift, but added Easy Rider and Daisy. There are many variables which will determine when and how much of the mountain we'll open in the early season. Primarily we want to provide a quality experience on whatever terrain we open. So how the snow arrives - what the moisture content is (a wet heavy early season storm can provide a good base to build on) snow depth and coverage. It is different every season - the only constant is how much everyone wants more of the mountain to open for some early turns!

Ideally we'll get some of those big November storms the weather forecasters are predicting to give us enough coverage provide the quality skiing and riding experience we want to present.

--Meadows Team

# October 29, 2008 7:25 PM

Deep Powder said:

Meadows needs 30" to open properly from my past experience of skiing up there!  I know that it will be coming soon and will most likely keep a big smile on our faces all year long!!!  Note, until there's at least a 50" base the obstacles are very much in play all over the mountain.

Meadows reply:

Deep Powder: It all deepends on the way the snow arrives, how much air vs how much moisture is in it, the amount of compaction we can create and a multitude of other factors. As alwasy we will caution our guests that early season conditions apply and to be aware of obstacles. Having said that, LET IT SNOW!

--Meadows Team

# October 30, 2008 7:33 AM

Deep Powder said:

I know my last comment wasn't what you wanted to post but you must admit it does take ~30" base to open the mountain up properly.  Of course the snow depth isn't the only factor since it also depends on density of the snow pack, wind conditions during snow fall, etc...

I'm sure this won't get posted either but when the snow starts to fly it will be a good year to ride.

Meadows reply:

Deep: Well said - sorry for the delay in the initial post.

--Meadows Team

# October 31, 2008 8:29 AM

Deep Powder said:

It sure is nice to see the snow filled trees again!  Hopefully we can actually get 15-20" this week and hold it through the warm up at the end of the week; say your prayers, I know you will.

Meadpws reply:

Deep: It's great to see the white stuff again. We'll take what we can get here early in the week and see what happens later.

--Meadows Team

# November 3, 2008 6:49 AM

Deep Powder said:

Now let's hope that we get very little rain over the next couple of days and then another 2' of snow early next week!  This may give you a chance to open a week early.  As for the web cams, they are all perfect except the top of Vista Express cam which shouldn't be pointed at the rocks that are almost always rocks even in the middle of winter.

Let's get ready for some more snow starting Sunday!

Meadows reply:

Deep: The forecast says there's more than two inches in the next pulse - we'll just have to see what happens later in the week. We're excited about the new Vista Cam, and are getting it dialed in. It will provide great views of the "Vista" when weather allows, and will also provide us with some very good "real time" weather from the upper mountain.

--Meadows Team

# November 6, 2008 7:46 AM

Boarder93 said:

hmm. glad to see that a good storm rolled in. Im actually glad that it warmed up this week because it gives a good base to build up on. So it will compact it making it less likely to melt faster. keep up the good work and it looks like another batch of snow storms on the horizon so keep your fingers crossed!! =)

Meadows reply:

Boarder93: The warm weather has taken its toll on he base in the base area - as of this Saturday evening there's only about 5 to 6 inches with bare spots. Fear not - it is still early and more weather is on the way!

--Meadows Team

# November 7, 2008 8:19 AM

jaker said:

The forecast isn't looking to good for what it is showing now through this week. Is there any prediction of snow next week? Also will you guys have shipyard open like you did last year? That would be great i'm dying to ski right now.

Meadows reply:

Jaker: We're all anxious to get the season started. We will be getting snow through the weekend - we'll see how the base builds. We do have early season plans to build a rail park like Shipyard, then move the rails to our other parks as we get them open.

See you on the mountain!

--Meadows Team

# November 10, 2008 4:21 PM

dan said:

Dave, I know this has been brought up in previous years as well, but I think it merits another mention: the pass photo process is broken.

Back at the old downtown sales/marketing office, it was easy to sneak out of work for 45 minutes during the day to get a photo taken. To get to the pass office in Clackamas between 11 - 4 on a weekday, on the other hand, is totally impossible. I know that I typically have other plans on the weekend than fighting traffic out to Clackamas, and standing in line at the Meadows office...I suspect many of your other pass holders feel the same way.

Dave, what would it actually cost for Meadows to open an auxiliary office downtown for 6 weeks or so to shoot pass photos? Something like $5,000 or so? Given that every 4 x 4 group is netting the mountain almost $1,800, that seems like it would be a reasonable investment to make to smooth the photo process.

That's assuming you didn't want to borrow some space from someone like the Columbia store or US Outdoor, and set up a pass photo facility there. Those retailers would be tickled pink to have the traffic; you might not even need to pay to use the space.

I'd like to know the reason why Meadows hasn't moved forward with one of these approaches, or simply allowed us to re-use our pass photos from the previous year. Given that we've seen no change on this for three years now, I'm forced to assume that the mountain doesn't think the incredibly lousy purchase experience is important enough to put any thought into changing it. Say it ain't so, Dave: resenting Meadows is no way to start the season.

Meadows reply:

Dan: Thanks for the comments. The reason we take pictures at our Clackamas Sales Office is because of the dedicated bandwidth we have to connect our remote sales and picture stations to the server, which is located at the mountain. We are experimenting this year with some remote picture taking sites via the internet, and wireless cards. Once we are comfortable with the remote technology working, we'll have more options for picture taking locations in the future.

Meanwhile we've moved the cameras back to the Clackamas Office where we'll be taking pictures Wednesday, 11/19 from 11 AM - 7 PM; Friday 11/21 from 11 AM - 4 PM and Saturday 11/22 from 11 AM - 4 PM. We'll announce any additional picture taking for next week after we see what this storm system brings.

Once the ski area opens we will have all six cameras operating there. It is the same set up as at the ski show this past weekend. The average time to get the pass was less than 9 minutes, so we'll be prepared for those that wait to get their pictures at the mountain.

Thanks for the post!

--Meadows Team

# November 12, 2008 3:08 PM

glacierjay said:

You said: "We'd also like to use this opportunity to remind season pass holders whose groups are completed to get their pictures taken in advance, either at the Clackamas Sales Office or at the Ski Area...we'll also be at the Ski Show November 14 - 16"

I'm not happy! Paid for my pass today and now I want to pick it up. You expect me to pay to get into the ski show just to pick up a pass? That or stand in line opening day?

Guys, that's no way to treat your customers! How about setting up the cameras OUTSIDE the ski show so we don't have to pay to get in and mill around with all those annoying retailers just to get the pass? Please? Maybe keep taking photos in Clackamas? Anything, but don't make me stand in a long hot discouraging line the first day the lifts open.

Another suggestion: I had a pass last year. I don't look all that different this year. How about mailing me a pass using last years photo? Sorry to whine, but I really really really don't like standing in line!

Meadows reply:

glacierjay: We have the cameras in our Clackamas Office again this week (see the schedule posted in the reply to Dan).

--Meadows Team

# November 14, 2008 2:47 PM

jaker said:

No one is answering my comments... One last try. Will shipyard be open on opening day like last year? Also how is the forecast looking, snow coming soon? The ones shown dont say much.

Meadows reply:

jaker: Thanks for hanging in there. We do plan to have an early season rail park and then we'll move the rails to our other parks as they open. The forecast says snow through the weekend - but we don't know how much we'll get out of it. Hopefully we'll get a system that stalls out on us and builds the base. Think snow!

--Meadows Team

# November 15, 2008 11:26 PM

Boarder93 said:

Man are you guys stoked or what! I know i am for sure. all  we need is one big dump of snow to kick off the 08/09 season.

question:

will meadows start snow making to get limited runs open before or after thanksgiving day?

<><><><><><><><><>PRAY FOR SNOW<><><><><><><><><><><>

*    *     *     *     *     *    *    *    *    *  *  *    *     *     *     *    *     *    *    *    *     *   *   *   *    *    *    *     *     *   *     *   *     *   *    *   *     *  *   *    *       *    *     *        *       *     *     *    *    *    *        *      *     *       *    *         *    *      *     P.S. Hope you like the snow flakes... we need em bad...!!!!!!!!!

# November 22, 2008 7:56 PM

Adam said:

Does anyone up there answer comments?

Meadows reply:

Adam: Yes - although there are times that we can get behind or that getting the appropriate answer can take a while, particularly if our key personnel is unavailable.

--Meadows Team

# November 24, 2008 8:53 AM