MEADOWS BLOG

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Avalanche Control - A New Approach

Hi folks.

For the past year, Mt. Hood Meadows has conducted extensive research on developing an improved  avalanche control (AC) program that will provide for the safety of our employees conducting avalanche control, and to better serve skiers by getting our in bounds terrain  – in particular Heather and Clark Canyons –  open more frequently and routinely after storm cycles. This blog is a continuation of prior blogs addressing snow safety at Mt. Hood Meadows and is intended to:
• Review our in bounds terrain and the associated avalanche threats,
• Inform about current options to mitigate this threat, including current procedures,.
• Present the option we are most likely to pursue and the approvals process required for implementation,

The Terrain

 
The terrain in Heather and Clark Canyons is big, varied (convex slopes, rock cliffs, steeps, trees, etc.) and uniquely spectacular. Combine this terrain with an ample supply of northwest snowfall and you have the recipe for some incredible skiing, snowboarding, and avalanches. Mitigating avalanche hazards in this varied terrain is challenging, particularly during storm systems. It’s hard to get to -- the Cascade Express chairlift is frequently crippled by a large volume of rime ice and it can’t run early, if at all.
 
Snowmobiles and snowcats are ineffective in pulling the patrollers uphill through deep snow and whiteout conditions, so patrollers must climb on skis or wade uphill with heavy packs of explosives to reach their control objectives. Under such conditions, more patrollers performing snow safety work is not the answer.  In fact, such a strategy would further compound safety and productivity challenges in this area.
 
Our current avalanche control program is one that we have used effectively, for many years and includes a series of both passive and active measures.  Passive methods include avoidance and closure. While there are areas within our permit area which we avoid altogether, we use gated ropelines to manage our avalanche closures, as the map below indicates.

Unfortunately, temporary closures are only respected if they are infrequent and of short duration. Long delays in opening Heather Canyon after a storm cycle frequently lead to closure violations. The threat of lost skiing privileges, a fine or possibly death if overtaken by an avalanche, apparently are insufficient deterrents.  Safety of our employees and the public is the primary concern of Mt. Hood Meadows Ski Resort and the Mt. Hood National Forest. 

Control Zones are often used to help define the terrain in avalanche control programs.  Typically, multiple avalanche paths grouped within one zone may have similar terrain features, similar weather patterns, and require similar hazard reduction measures.  You can see the different zones on the map below.  Each zone generally requires its own unique approach and technique. 

Mt. Hood Meadows ski patrol routinely provides active control measures into these areas, including the use of:
• Compaction – Primarily skier compaction, which works best in Lower Heather Canyon, but must thoroughly disturb every snow layer in order for skier/rider compaction to be effective
• Ski Cutting – A major staple of most ski patrol control teams, but is not suitable for hard or deep slabs on the unconfined convex slopes that prevail in Heather & Clark Canyons,

Deep slabs are possible as shown here in A-zone, beneath the Basalt Cliffs  
 
-- you definitely wouldn’t want to try ski cutting this slab.
• Explosives – Using hand charges is the most common method of Avalanche Control delivery in use at Meadows today. Individual explosive charges weighing from two to ten pounds each are thrown, suspended or placed onto the avalanche path by our control teams.

 
Despite the inherent and obvious hazards associated with handling explosives, using them can reduce control team members exposure to avalanche hazard.
 
The sequence below shows the effective use of hand explosives to release a slide in A-zone.

 
Sometimes a 10 pound explosive isn’t enough so a larger explosive is delivered by tethered sled precisely into a control area.

 
We also use an avalauncher (like the one pictured) which uses compressed nitrogen to throw a 2.6 pound explosive charge designed to explode on impact. Avalaunchers are often times not effective during storm periods as the light-weight charge can be blown off course. And during storm conditions visual confirmation is not possible to determine whether avalauncher “shots” have been effective.

Here’s one of the key challenges of avalanche control work in Heather and Clark Canyons: Because they both funnel into Lower Heather Canyon all of these zones have to be controlled before the terrain below them can be opened. Our crews have to blast their way from one zone to the next, first controlling the Basalt Cliffs, then Upper Heather ridge, on to Clark Ridge and down to Accordion Bowl.

 
This also means that all the explosives for this trek must be carried in, so our patrollers are performing this work wearing 70 and 80 pound backpacks filled with explosives. Meanwhile, other teams are controlling Heather Ridge, Clark Canyon and Jacks Woods.
The lower canyon can only be opened once the upper potential avalanche areas have been controlled.

Control teams that climb the ridge to reach the upper Basalt starting zones are faced with a very big challenge. These starting zones are huge unconfined convex rolls that get steeper the farther out you go. These are some of the most dangerous types of slopes for control teams to be on. Control teams here are also frequently hampered by high winds and poor visibility. The snow surface is often wind packed and very firm which requires the hand charges to be tethered to keep them from rolling down the slope. “Tippy-toeing” out onto a huge convex hard slab, in a “whiteout”, to tether a five pound booster to your ski pole is extremely dangerous. There is rarely a safe route, and there is no place to hide.

 
I have the greatest amount of respect for our patrollers who serve on our control teams. They perform their work professionally and precisely, in extreme and inhospitable conditions, with no margin for error. The graph below shows the number of patrollers on the Basalt and upper Heather Ridge routes conducted over the past several seasons.

  
So that brings you up to speed on our current avalanche control program.

There are other options to performing control work used in other parts of the country. After careful consideration we’ve determined that most don’t deliver the margin of safety or accuracy that we need here in our challenging environment. For our situation, the safest and the most effective avalanche control measure is a military weapon, an option we are currently studying with the intent to acquire and install. Specifically, a M101A1 105 MM Howitzer like the one pictured below, located at Las Vegas Ski and Snowboard Resort.

The 105 MM Howitzer has the ability to deliver appropriate payloads of explosives to remote and inaccessible starting zones with precise targeting, even during adverse weather conditions. That means that control work can proceed during storms, even in whiteout conditions, confidently and precisely. That will enable any required hand throwing or cutting by teams to proceed more directly to those areas. This means we can open Heather and Clark Canyons more safely and potentially more quickly following storm cycles, depending on the weather and snow conditions. It also means less risk to our patrol crews. These weapons are administered by the US Army Tactical Command based at the arsenal in Rock Island, IL. The army “loans” the equipment to another government agency such as the Forest Service or a state highway department with the cost of equipment refurbishment borne by the proposed user which, in this case, would be Mt. Hood Meadows. Military weapons are used for snow safety programs at other ski areas such as Mammoth, Alpine Meadows, Taos, Jackson Hole, Alta, Las Vegas Ski & Snowboard and by highway departments in Colorado, Wyoming and Washington.

The acquisition of the Howitzer and construction of the building is a top priority for Mt. Hood Meadows. In addition to the normal USFS permitting procedures, which includes environmental analysis in accordance with the National Environmental Policy Act, our plan must also comply with and be approved by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the Department of Homeland Security and the U.S. Army. We are working closely with Forest Supervisor Gary Larsen, pursuing a plan which could allow us to construct the firing platform and magazine, and acquire the weapon for use as soon as the 2008/2009 ski season, provided USFS permitting can be achieved in the near future. Here is his perspective:

As Forest Supervisor, I was asked to add my perspective to this blog. I have never blogged before, but welcome the opportunity. While every ski area avalanche management situation is unique, there are a set of factors that need to be well-addressed in the administration and management of any ski area avalanche control program. Among them are:

• the level of avalanche risk the public is exposed to and how public exposure to the risk is managed,
• the level of risk assumed by ski area employees and the ski patrol in controlling avalanches,
• the interaction between weather, avalanche risk, and opening of potentially threatened ski runs,
• environmental effects, and
• cost and difficulty of administering and managing the avalanche control program. 

We (MHM and Mt. Hood National Forest) have become increasingly concerned with the level of risk the ski patrol and MHM employees are facing in their current routine avalanche control. MHM has explored a variety of methods for control. Representatives from the Mt. Hood National Forest and MHM visited Snowbird ski area in Utah a month ago to examine their avalanche control program because theirs is one of the best in the nation.

We found out that indeed MHM employees and ski patrol are exposed to greater risk than Snowbird employees and ski patrol. We discovered a high level of public acceptance of the use of military weapons and a very effective system for communicating with the public about risks, planned avalanche control times, and a high degree of management of public exposure to avalanche hazard and control. We also discovered that the environmental effects of military weapon use are smaller than with other techniques because of increased accuracy and significantly smaller dud rate. Lastly, we affirmed the importance of using a multi-faceted approach to controlling risks associated with avalanches and avalanche control — a comprehensive avalanche control program.

MHM has made a proposal to the Mt. Hood National Forest to improve its avalanche control program in several respects, the most significant of which is the proposed use of a military weapon. As we have evaluated their proposal, we find it to be comprehensive and well-thought through. If we approve implementation of their proposed program, risks to the Ski Patrol and MHM employees will be reduced very significantly, risks to the public will be significantly reduced, response times after large snow-dumping storms will be shortened significantly allowing use of some of the best runs while snow conditions are still excellent. The overall environmental effects will be less in comparison to their current methods. The one-time initial capital investment required for the proposed avalanche control program will be high due to acquisition and refurbishing the weapon and construction associated with its shelter and explosive storage. The annual operating costs will also be higher than the current approach due primarily to the training requirements necessary to safely operate the weapon. MHM is also including investment in other avalanche control tools as part of its new comprehensive plan.

The only environmental effect changes that will require analysis are for the installation of the new weapon shelter and explosive storage — an analysis that we will conduct under a categorical exclusion. MHM and the Hood River Ranger District are consulting with stakeholders and local officials as MHM finalizes its proposal. We will look forward to considering the proposal when they submit it after having made changes as the result of their consultations.  The Hood River District Ranger has indicated to me that she would solicit additional comments from stakeholders when we receive the final proposal before she makes her decision.  From my perspective, this proposal by MHM represents a significant long term investment in the safety of the Ski Patrol, MHM employees, and the public, as well as an investment in providing high quality services to the public.

--  Gary Larsen, Forest Supervisor, Mt. Hood National Forest.  April 2, 2008

Comments

Grim said:

Sounds like a "Win-Win" to me! Better, more effective  AC with lower risk to MHM Employees.

Matt's reply:

Grim:  You got it!

 --  Matt

# April 2, 2008 11:40 PM

sds said:

Matt

Thanks for the comprehensive depiction of hazards involved in opening Heather Canyon--99.9% of your skiing public doesn't even have a clue to the level of risk and exposure your patrolers go thru week after week during the ski season to open the canyon--glad you are addressing that problem.  Hope you get a big gun!

Matt's reply:

sds:  Thanks for your post and your continued support this season!

 -- Matt.

# April 3, 2008 4:47 AM

Powder Hound said:

Thank you for this detailed overview of the challenges to open Heather Canyon!  I've always respected these challenges and can only hope that a better system is put in place soon so all of MHM terrain can be skied/boarded on powder days.  I still find it amazing that after a day when HC is open and over-nite we get 3" of new snow that the area can't be opened before 11 a.m. or sometimes at all; drifting is understandable but if the appropriate avalanche work was done the day before this won't produce a huge slide.

Once again thank you.

Matt's reply:

Hound:  Thanks for your post and support, particularly on this important initiative.  As you well know. Heather Canyon is a big area with potentially big snow and big hazards!  We aim to improve safety, reliability and timeliness with this program.

-- Matt.

# April 3, 2008 7:16 AM

Capt. Powder said:

Matt,

Great info awesome job, Is there any way MHM patrol would give put togeather some on site classes for us? I here MT.Baker is doing that and it is very successful program for all.

Thanks.

Matt's reply:

Cap'n:  Yes, this something that we are planning to do for next season through our Snow Sports Learning Center and MHM Pro Patrol.  Stay tuned for more info on this topic this summer.

-- Matt

# April 3, 2008 8:37 AM

David said:

It would seem that it's a no-brainer....Acquire the military delivery system, appropriate trained "gunners" and build platform and storage facility....then roll on better, safer, more effective AC.

I don't envy you guys having to deal with multi-layered bureaucracy. Kudos to MHM if you can get this done in time for 08~09.

Matt's reply:

David:  Thanks for your post and continued support.  We are going to do everything that WE can to achieve this goal for next season.

--  Matt.

# April 3, 2008 8:37 AM

Melissa said:

Very cool post! I really appreciate the in-depth analysis of AC. Makes me really glad to have such a great crew at MHM.

Thanks!

Matt's reply:

Melissa: Thank you for your post - I will share it with our patrol and snow safety crews.

--Matt

# April 3, 2008 9:45 AM

Buster said:

Bring on the howitzer!  Ignore the nay-sayers and tree huggers that will probably want a lot of time and $$$ wasted in endless studies and public hearings.

I grew up in Tahoe and the howitzer platforms have been in successful use for decades.  This would allow you to open HC sooner and with much less risk to your patrollers who now slowly traverse the canyon and toss explosives below their position.

See you Saturday.

Matt's reply;

Buster:  Thanks for your continued support.  We continue to work with interested groups within the environmental community on this and other initiatives.  Their voice and input is important -- just as yours is -- to MHM.

-- Matt

# April 3, 2008 10:18 AM

Sinecure said:

Nice write-up. Interesting read.

I love the Howitzer at Alpine Meadows. Its a great alarm clock on AC days. My kids know its going to be a "freshie-freshie-pow-pow" day when the howitzer starts bombing at 7am.

Matt's reply:

Sinecure:  Thanks for the post.  The firing and detonation of the howitzer is similar to the charges we have been using for decades.  What we would be achieving with this change in delivery system is improved safety, effectiveness and timeliness.

-- Matt.

# April 3, 2008 11:02 AM

John said:

Matt,

Thanks for a great post.  I hope that you can get this set up by next year.  It sounds like a great plan that will improve safety for everyone and hopefully allow for a more timely and consistent opening of Heather canyon.  

John

Matt's reply:

John:  Thanks for the post and your support.  You have got a good understanding of our game plan!

-- Matt

# April 3, 2008 11:04 AM

Bill said:

Matt,

Great post and very informative.  But wouldn't one additional Howitzer located on the floor of Heather below Memorial Bowl also help getting the additional lower terrain opened sooner.  Let's go for the gold, not the silver.

Bill

Matt's reply:

Bill:  Thanks for your post and question.  A couple of thoughts for you:  1.  Any device, structure, lift, etc. located in the "gut" of Heather Canyon approximately above the runout to the Heather Lift will likely have a real short life.  2.  We will continue to use a variety of means and methods to perform AC work at Memorial Bowl to get it open as soon as it as safe as we can make it.

-- Matt

# April 3, 2008 11:38 AM

Paul C said:

Thanks for the great post. The diagrams and pictures really help us to understand the challenges involved in ensuring our safety. Wow, how safe is it for a ski patroller to stand directly under that 15 foot slab break line? I'm glad to hear that MHM plans to acquire a Howitzer and it looks like it will be a win/win for safety and timeliness.

Matt's reply:

Paul C:  Thanks for your post an support.  Yes, the installation of a howitzer will be a significant improvement in delivery, safety, and effectiveness.  It will become another important tool used to get Heather Canyon open as quickly as possible.

-- Matt

# April 3, 2008 11:40 AM

Chris said:

Matt,

Excellent post.  I would like to see more emphasis on how incredibly cool it is using a big military gun to trigger slides.  The sheer awesomeness is off the charts.

Joking aside it's nice to keep the diligent ski patrol out of harms way if possible.  People’s safety should always be paramount.  That appears to be evident in your decision making process.

Cheers,

Chris

Matt's reply:

Chris:  Thanks for your post.  You are right on the money -- safety for our patrol, our other team members and our guests is #1 at MHM.

--  Matt

# April 3, 2008 1:36 PM

yak said:

My vote is for it also, for the reasons already mentioned, chiefly increased safety. I'm really glad you laid everything out and went through the decision-making process right here on the blog. Before I read the post, I was skeptical, but if the duds are fewer and the accuracy of the gun is as on-point as you say in all conditions, then I'm fully with it. How would this effect the frequency of running the Super Bowl Snowcat?

I'm also for some sort of Avalanche safety classes open to the public. I've been looking for level 1 classes, but the availability nearby hasn't agreed with my schedule...

Matt's reply:

yak: Research on the effeciveness and safety record of the howitzer, performed by MHM and USFS, indicates that the dud rates and safety aspects of this particular military weapon are compelling.  Regarding the impact the howitzer would have on Cat Skiing in Super Bowl, that's tough to say.  Snow Cat access to this terrain is not governed by AC work alone, it also has to do with the construction conditions of the "snow road" cut in by the cat, wind / drift conditions, and snow conditions.  Having said that, it is our hope that we can open a hiking / climbing route to Super Bowl with greater frequency and earlier by employing combinations of the howitzer, hand charges and ski cutting in this area.  This approach may not be as glamorous as Cat Skiing, but it will hopefully appeal to those who are stoked for a minor hike to achieve some truly remarkable terrain.

-- Matt

# April 3, 2008 2:14 PM

Chris said:

Any concerns about missing your targets?  With the angle of Heather Canyon and the rest of the lifts just a hair higher (from the north) doesn't it seem likely that shots that miss high could make their way onto open trails?

Shooting skills aside; wind, humidity, and the amount of powder in the charge will greatly affect bullet trajectory, and other resorts have missed their targets in the past.  Will all shooting be done before guests arrive?

By the way, I'm all for it!

Matt's reply:

Chris:  Thanks for your post and excellent questions.  Regarding accuracy, all targets will be carefully selected and dialed in so that accuracy and consistency can be maintained.  This is obviously a very high priority and is carefully monitored / regulated by USFS, BATF and MHM.  The weight and fire power of the ordinance are also carefully managed to optimize accuracy, payload and effectiveness.  Firing will only occur very early in the morning, well before the resort is open to guests, and will be contained well within the MHM permit boundaries only.  Also, look for new and additional signage throughout Heather Canyon and our permit area regarding AC work, as well as additional information on <skihood.com>, the Concierge Desk and both upper and lower Patrol Headquarters facilities.  Moving forward, I think you will find a pretty signficant expansion and increase in communication from MHM Patrol on AC work and other safety issues throughout the MHM permit area.

--  Matt

# April 3, 2008 3:01 PM

Bunion said:

Matt, I have ben involved in ski area avalanche control at several different CLass-A areas for 24 years.

Your descriptions of procedures and protocols are pretty standard and seem to be reasonable and take into account employee and guest safety. To me this is the primary focus of all avalanche control within any ski area.

The only thing I find to be troubling is the contention that MHM patrollers face a more dangerous or daunting set of obstacles than the Snowbird Ski Patrol. Apples VS Oranges say I. All avalanche control involves risk and exposure and there is no way to compare one areas hazards with another effectively.

The idea of a Howitzer is probably prudent, but no matter what, the control teams will still have to run hand routes once the fire mission is complete. Military weapons will allow your patrollers to proceed with some cover shots but it is not the final solution.

Additionally, there was a presentation given several years back at the ISSW (International Snow Science Workshop) by Marty Schmoker, you may want to look into that study. www.avalanche.org/.../art66.html

Good luck with your updated program.

Matt's reply:

Bunion:  Thanks for the post and the support.  Comparing HC to Snowbird terrain is indeed apples and oranges, yet the nature of the threats is somewhat similar.  Snowbird Patrol has been super helpful in providing quality input to our proposed program.  A big "thanks" to them for that!  Marty Schmoker, along with several other seasoned AC professionals, has also been involved with MHM Patrol in helping design and implement this program.

-- Matt

# April 3, 2008 3:18 PM

Kevin Carr said:

What a great blog entry.  Keep up the good work!

Matt's reply:

Kevin:  Thanks for the support!

-- Matt

# April 3, 2008 3:56 PM

SkiLikeCrazy said:

Good work on this one. A lot of people really don't know what you guys go through to get HC open every day. I remember seeing those same pictures of the slide in A-zone in the Oregonian during January and I have to say THANK GOD FOR SKI PATROL. I mean, what if a person skiing down had set that off? I also saw an article in the paper this morning about you guys and your plans to acquire the howitzer. Thanks for all the work you are doing to make this happen.

Matt's reply:

Crazy:  Thanks for the post and the support.  The howtizer, if approved, will be a big improvement to our current AC program.  It is a significant undertaking by MHM, but very important.  We intend to continue to pursue this one with vogor and a genuine sense of urgency.

-- Matt

# April 3, 2008 4:14 PM

Questions? said:

I see lots and lots of talk of AC but what happened to the other half of the blog that was supposed to come with it, BC access?  

Ciao

Matt's reply:

?'s:  Thanks for the post.  Avalanche Control and Backcountry Access are two significant, related, yet independent topics.  Given the complexity of the issues associated with each topic, it's tough to cover both effectively in one blog.  Know, however, that we are working closely with USFS and the environmental community on our boundary policy.  Similar to this blog posting, we envision posting a joint blog with USFS on the MHM boundary policy when we know where we are on the approvals process for the howitzer.  Stay tuned!

-- Matt

# April 3, 2008 4:52 PM

Mike said:

Great post, very informative.  Nice to see some info that is relevant to serious skiers.  Nothing like the sound of Howitzers in the morning to get excited for a powder day (and knowing you can ski some terrain).  Now about that backcountry policy...

Matt's reply:

Mike:  Thanks for the post and for your support.  Regarding backcountry access, etc., please see our response to Questions below this post.

-- Matt

# April 3, 2008 5:29 PM

ShaugyDog said:

Quite pleased to see MHM pursuing this option. Better late tnan never. One has to wonder what your predesesser was doing the previous 14-15 years. Minimizing costs I suspect. Now that MHM is stepping up to the plate and taking the initiative regarding opening greater, more challenging terrain, why not take it one step further, and open up your ski area bounday to backcounty terrain, and the Mt. Hood Wilderness zone? The vast majority of ski areas throught the Western U.S. allow the public to access land adjacent to their permit area, including your neighbor across the Canyon. This is often done thru control points, where the requirements are often a transciever, probe, partner and shovel, and often as not, no such items are reqired. Ever seen the gate @ Bridger Bowl or Jackson Hole? Granted if this control point were manned, MHM would have to hire more patrollers, but that need is already there. Having skied 20 or so major areas throught the Western U.S.and North, I am confidant in stating that MHM has the most restrictive backcountry access policy of any area in our Western region, and you very well may be #1 in North America. I realize MHM can't have a blanket open border policy for all their skiers wishing to access the Mt. Hood Wildernss or even White River, but there is certainly some leeway for greater access for skiers and skinners who come prepared, and are willing to take responsibility for themselves.    

Regards, ShaugyDog

Matt's reply:

Dog:  Thanks for your post.  You raise several important and complex issues that will be covered in a future blog.  Personnally, I don't disagree with any of your comments, but keep in mind there are many other perspectives that must be considered on this issue -- environmental community, USFS, Federal Governement, etc.  Stay tuned for more on this one!

-- Matt.

# April 3, 2008 8:33 PM

Steve Again said:

First of all cool post, very comprehensive with lots of interesting pics and explanations. I have nothing but respect for the job the Prp Patrol does at Meadows.  But let's be truthful. A fixed gun has been discussed as the only viable means of doing "blind" control work in and above Heather for YEARS. I personally suggested it in Dave's Blog several times. Kudos to you for finally taking some action.

A couple of observations that might further expedite the opening of Heather:

You still need more bodies. I have heard various members of the patrol say several times that they do not have the man power to open areas any quicker. On stormy days bag Cascade and concentrate on Heather. I think the majority of your customers would prefer to ski Heather in powder than Cascade in a white out.  

Don't rule out ski cutting in the lower canyon. With low density snow like we were blessed with this year, ski cutting is effective. If there are little to no results above, ski cut the known danger pockets in Moon Bowl, Absolute Magnitude, etc... It is quicker and cheaper than throwing more bombs.

Save Accordian for a 2nd pass. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in almost 20 years I have never seen an Accordian slide round the corner to the main Heather run out. There is a natural bench at the bottom that slows and stops slides. Delaying the opening of Accordian only means another run of untracked later.

Hopefully you get the gun. I'm sure it will help in many ways. While you have the Forest Services attention how about opening up the boundaries. The rest of the mountain is public land. Other ski areas allow access from their permit area onto Park or Forest service land. Once you leave the ski area you are on your own and better be equipped and know what you are doing. Rescue if needed is not the responsibility of Meadows and can even be billed to the party needing rescue. The patrol can stop being cops and concentrate on safety with in the ski area boundaries.

You seem to be on the right track lets keep it rolling.  

Matt's reply:

Steve: Thanks for the post. In the future we will be increasing the number of patrollers but it does take some time to train and hire. We do and will continue to ski cut in those areas when that is the best method. Regarding Accordian Bowl, we can not perform control work on Accordian while the other parts of the canyon are open - people traverse once they have access. Thanks for your comments - boundary management is a subject for a future blog.

--Matt

# April 3, 2008 9:55 PM

Sam said:

Great blog post!  Thank you for the information and pictures, I have a much better perspective of Heather Canyon. I hope this plan works out.

Matt's reply:

Sam:  Thanks for your support!

-- Matt

# April 3, 2008 10:56 PM

Mark P said:

Thanks for the details information is never a bad thing, I think more people will be supportive of your efforts when they have good info.  That is why being accurate in your signage is important.  Many, many days I ride the Mt. Hood express 1st thing in the morning on a weekday and the sign in the upper terminal window says Cascade open, and it is not.  Or the electric signboard at shooting star says heather is closed and it is open, or vise versa.  I had a ski patrol issue around the parking lot and the vertical walls and potential fall into the lot and it took 3 days to get a call back and as far as I can tell 2 weeks later still no fix.  So inbounds issues still need lots of attention.

On the Howitzer:  Its about time.  Technology is a good way to combat safety and manpower issues.  I hope that at least once a season they will have demonstration day so people can see how the equipment works and how effective it is, plus the wow factor.  

Hope you are prepared for the 'friends' of Mt Hood who oppose everything anyone has ever done or will ever do anywhere on the mountain. I have a feeling they will be opposed to this one too, surprise, surprise.

Thanks again for keeping us informed and I hope this works out for all of us.

Mark

Matt's reply:

Mark:  Thanks for your post and observations. We are working on making many additional improvements to our in-bounds signage and safety awareness so watch for those next year.  Also, thanks for notifying us when you see potential hazards around the area -- we can and will fix potential safety issues that we observe or are made aware of.

Regarding the howitzer, it would be tough to do a live public demonstration due to strict safety measures.  We will look at making a cool video, however, which should get the job done for our interested guests while maintaining the rigorous safety procedures that will be in place.  Of course, timing on that will be a function of permitting, which brings us to the approvals process.  We continue to work with our partners in the enviornmental community, alpine recreation groups and the USFS on this project.  Hopefully by continuing to proactively collaborate with these groups, we can acheive the required approvals in a timely manner.

-- Matt

# April 4, 2008 7:12 AM

snodog said:

Matt, thanks for writing up a detailed plan. I think the safety of ski patrol and guests is paramount. If artillery is necessary for increasing their safety then I think it is a good idea.

One part of your article that did feel misleading is when you wrote:  "In addition to the normal USFS permitting procedures, which includes environmental analysis in accordance with the National Environmental Policy Act". It is my understanding that yopu are petitioning for a conditional exclusion from a NEPA review for this project. I am not judging the merit of this, as I don't know enough about the effects of building the shelter, I just think you should be as transparent and clear with your guests as possible.

Thanks

Matt's reply:

Snodog: Sorry for the tardy reply.  We agree with the concept of being transparent on this and other projects at MHM.  The NEPA process is just that.  USFS will publish a scoping letter, there will be an opportunity for public input, and so forth.  We look forward to keeping you updated on this process and your continued involvement.

 -- Matt

# April 4, 2008 8:20 AM

A Passholder said:

Great post! The information on current AC procedures is very informative, and the Howitzter sounds fantastic!

Matt's reply:

Passholder:  Thanks for your continued support!

-- Matt

# April 4, 2008 8:37 AM

Jack said:

Avalance control is a great thing, cuz anyone that has been in one knows what a life changing event it is.  Thanks patrol, you should get more props and less crap.  Oh yeah, can I shoot the howitzer.

Matt's reply:

Jack:  Thanks for the kind words -- I will pass them on to our deserving Patrol Team.  Regarding shooting the howitzer, that's a negative -- but thanks for asking!

-- Matt.

# April 4, 2008 9:31 AM

Brent said:

Great blog. I learned some things I didn't know. Now if only there was a way to get Cascade open quicker when it is covered in ice.

Matt's reply:

Brent:  Thanks for the post.  Regarding getting Cascade open earlier when it's major league caked with rime ice, as you must know, that' remains a formidable battle for our crew that they fight repeatedly with resourcefulness, vigor and honor.

-- Matt

# April 4, 2008 9:32 AM

Jason Craveiro said:

For those that are interested, Snowbird has a video of their gun in action on their website:  www.snowbird.com/.../december9_2007.html

The rest of the video is pretty good too.

Matt, thanks for the continued updates, hopefully those with less experience in high risk areas have a great appreciation for the exposure your crew has, and just how deadly it can be when things go wrong.

Matt's reply:

Jason:  Thanks for the link and  the support!

-- Matt

# April 4, 2008 9:38 AM

John Q said:

great post,very informative.It's always good to get a look at pictures and information about the Clarke and Heather Canyon areas.It is a very interesting area and one of my favorite areas due to the openess of it.I am in full support of this Howitzer and anytime military equipment can be put to the good use of shredding and skiing is great.Will this cannon significantly increase the time HC and CC are open and also do you guys have plans in the pipeline to open the S&R area for the 08'-09' season?

Matt's reply:

John Q:  Thanks for your support and your questions.  The intent of deploying the howitzer is to improve safety, effectiveness, reliability AND timeliness -- particularly in big time snow cycles like we have had this epic season! 

Yes, we are looking into how we can open up additional terrain within our permit boundary that has previously been closed.  Look for more information on this topic later this coming summer.  I'm stoked about this one for sure!

-- Matt.

# April 4, 2008 10:33 AM

Ex Lift Op MikeI said:

I would love to ski Heather and Clark more often and feel safe about it. BUT, what type of projectiles are going to be used? This could be a major environmental hurdle. Are standard military issue, HE-105mm DU (depleted Uranium) going to be used? (Uranium decays to Lead). Either material leaves a moral question, is it worth throwing Uranium/Lead all over our great mountain?

www.globalsecurity.org/.../105t.htm

About a year ago, (or more)someone from the rocky mtn area (?) developed a new type of air propelled (or??)avalauncher, but was very expensive, but very accurate. I couldn't find anything about this on any searches. Are there any other options that are as accurate as a Howitzer without throwing Uranium/Lead?

Matt's reply:

Ex-Lift Op Mike:  Thanks for your post, and sorry for the delayed response.  I actually took a few days off with my family to attend a funeral back East.

Any, Mike let me clear up a few misconceptions you may have.  The projectiles we propose to use are standard military ordinance that DO NOT CONTAIN URANIUM.  The vast majority of materials that make up this ordinance is vaporized upon detonation.  Fragments from the steel shell casing, which are very small, rust and deteriorate quickly (we know this not only from detailed reports from other ski areas, but from our own experience maintaining many steel components at the higher elevations of Mt. Hood for 40 years!).  The nitrogen powered avalauncher you described is a slightly fancier, but no more effective, version of the one we have been using for many years.

Regarding security issues, trust me when I tell you that the protocols, training, regulatory oversight and documentation of the implementation of a howitzer are awesomely effective.

Peace.

-- Matt.

# April 4, 2008 10:35 AM

slolorus said:

 Awesome! Great pictures and info.

 If you get this done, you will no doubt, be hailed as a hero of Meadows history.  We have some incredible terrain that is easily accessed when its safe. I think improved access to these areas will increase the reputation of Meadows drastically.  

 Where would this howitzer most likely be placed? I think it is about time. Heather Canyon is no joke and I'm sure its one of they most snow laden, avalnche-prone ski areas in the country. I have no interest in dying in an avalanche and greatly appreciate the efforts ski patrol makes.

 Break out the big guns!!

Matt's reply:

slolorous:  Thanks for the post.  First of all the heros of MHM are the many members of our incredible Team -- including of course MHM Patrol.

The howitzer would be located in a self contained structure approximately 600' down the leading edge of Shooting Star Ridge.  This location provides optimal targetting for the key control areas.  The compact structure housing the weapon would be nestled next to some medium sized mountain hemlocks to help obscure its visability.  Portions of the structure will likely be burried under snow in the winter which will also help minimize visual impacts.

You are quite right, Heather Canyon provides some of the most spectacular and dangerous skiing / riding terrain in the Pacific NW.  Howitzer or not, it's vital to respect this area at all times.

Thanks for your respect and appreciation of the fine job MHM Patrol does every day.

-- Matt 

# April 4, 2008 10:38 AM

Ex Lift Op Mike said:

EVERYONE that goes into Heather Canyon should be required to read "Snow Sense" by Jill Fredston and Doug Fesler. Most everything about HC, slope aspect, slope angle, and prevailing winds make it prime avalanche territory.

Matt's reply:

Mike: Thanks for the post and the reference. The more educated about snow safety those heading into the canyon are the better it will be for everyone.

--Matt

# April 4, 2008 10:46 AM

Katie said:

This is great news!  Hopefully the Canyon will start opening BEFORE NOON!  

Matt, I'd like to introduce you to the term DAWN PATROL! Last weekend the canyon didn't open until NOON, because blasting didn't begin until late morning.  Do you really think I should be hearing explosions at 11:00 am?  This should be complete before I even get to the mountain.  Again, I emphasize DAWN PATROL.  I understand that we all like a nice breakfast and warm latte' in the morning but ski patrol should be out there blasting at 5am, that's their job.  

Matt's reply:

Katie: Thanks for your post, and sorry for less than timely reply!

Let me clear up some misunderstandings you may have.  Sunrise on that day was around 6:15AM.  Although Patrol is enroute to HC much earlier than that, it's obviously tough to toss hand charges in the dark.  Even Special Forces has a little trouble with that concept.  We do not pursue hand routes in the dark for obvious safety concerns.  Regarding the sensitive nature and volume of control work to make Heather Canyon safe for our guests, this was clearly documented on our recent blog post.  It would appear from your comments that you either did not read that post, or do not understand it.  I would be pleased to meet you at MHM at 4:30AM any morning we do AC work to help further your understanding of the signficant efforts made by MHM Patrol to provide for your safe enjoyment of the unique terrain MHM and HC offer.  Be prepared for some aggressive hiking, bring several power bars, some water, extra shirts and a positive attitude.  Finally, be prepared to purchase latte's for each of our Patrollers at the end of your tour.

-- Matt 

 

 

# April 4, 2008 11:20 AM

Nof said:

Excellent post! Alot of people have no idea the risk they take poaching the canyon. That picture of that release in A zone is just amazing. The cascade tower ice tree is another amazing pic. I don't envy lift maint up there pounding away with a mallet. For everyone if they haven't seen it. Here's a good vid of actual AC work and a hint at the exposure/risk these guys take. http://www.skipatrolfilms.com/

Get the big gun! and possibly move the pneumatic gun to the tree'd ridge above ClarkC/Accordian for fine tune use on the main face of Lower Heather. Or make it SnoCat towable for mobile op's! Get'er done Forrest Service guys! Environmental Impact....Nobody gets killed by it (The Environment)

Matt's reply:

Nof: Thanks for the suggestions and your support.

--Matt

# April 4, 2008 11:29 AM

Capt.Powder said:

Matt,

Would the discharge of the big gun delay the opening of shooting stair? would the new building be built where the current canon shack is on ridge just above shooting stair, 6,300 ft.

Regards.

Matt's reply:

Captain:  No, the howitzer operations would be complete prior to opening the resort to the public in the AM.  The mount / building location is approximately 600' down from the top of the Star lift on Shooting Star Ridge.  We will leave the avalauncher where it is for now as it is useful for certain control work applications.

Thanks for the post.

 

-- Matt

# April 4, 2008 11:50 AM

RN said:

Looks like every post is in favor of getting and using a Howitzer.  Good!!!  I'm visiting here from Idaho for a month or so.  Just spent Spring Vac. Week here with pretty good dumps and very, very little open "steeps", and was very surprised and disappointed!!!  To say the least!  Some locals I talked to were irrate, to say the very least!  My family used to live right below Snowbird.  So I spent alot of time in that area skiing and boarding.  Howitzers seem to have been working great there and elsewhere for a very long time, as really steep terrain is open at Snowbird, (and Alta too), immediately after huge dumps of very light, and possibly unstable powder.  I've been thinking of moving here be closer to the ocean, and MHM has some great terrain, unfortunately I did'nt get to ski most of it on the spring break powder days, and neither did anyone else.  My ski patroler friend said there were alot of complaints...., as there should be.  I'm really hoping you folks can and will get a Howitzer for next season!!!!  Having nice steep terrain is of no use to advanced and expert skiiers and riders if it's not open during and/or immediately after snowfall!  Can't buy a season pass at a place like that!  Very glad to see you folks have a plan to fix the problem by next season, although that does'nt help us this season.  Better late than never, I quess.  The Howitzer will make it so much safer for patrolers, and everyone else too.  So, is there any new news about getting a Howitzer in the near future?  Does it look good for '08/'09 season?  Your guests are obviously all for it!  

I also agree that opening your boundries to bc skiers and riders, should be allowed.  Avalance/bc courses would therefore be a great idea too, like other resorts have.  Thanks

Matt's reply:

RN:  Thanks for your post and your passion.  We are aiming (no pun intended) to achieve operational status of the howitzer by next season, pending USFS approval.  This should not be probelmatic in my opinion as we are simply changing the delivery method for a program that has been in place for many years.  All in an effort to improve safety, efficiency, reliability and timeliness. We'll keep you updated on our progress right here.

Regarding boundary issues, we also continue to work on this issue with our partners in the USFS and the enviornmental and alpine recreation communities.  Stay tuned for more on this topic this summer.

-- Matt.

 

# April 4, 2008 11:54 AM

Meadows Lark said:

Very imformative post, good read & love the pics.  Big Gun, cool.  More people in Heather, less in park, cool.  Safer, cool.  Always wondered why it wasn't done earlier.

Peace.

Matt's reply:

Lark:  I knew we could count on your support!

--  Matt

# April 4, 2008 1:00 PM

Bk said:

Excellent detail.  Your patrons NEED this.  Heather needs to be safe during business hours.  With this latest spring burst of powder, I rode up lifts with at least 5 skiers who were "bragging" about ducking the rope early.  The deterrence of personal penalty is absent in the mind of these skiers.  They clearly need to be looked after.

It seems like they "sense" the opening and that it must be safe by now.  Then the flock just keeps circling over there on Shooting Star.  They HAVE to do it.

A suggestion for helping out us out with the opening:  How about a text messengering system to sign up for??  10 minutes til Heather Opens?  You could help kill two birds with one stone...spread everyone out on the hill and keep that guy behind the ropes, because he has some information. 

Matt's reply:

BK:  Thanks for the post.  Aside from being against the law, ducking ropes and disregarding closure signs at MHM creates a very unsafe condition for our guests and our Patrol.  As we work to expand and upgrade our snow safety and avalanche control operations throughout our permit area, we will also be managing our rope lines and closure areas with more vigor in order to maintain a high level of safety awareness and to help protect our guests and our Patrol from snow hazards.  This will include additional cooperation from the USFS and Hood River County Sherrif's Department.

Regarding your suggestion about text messaging terrain openings, that's a very interesting idea that we will discuss.  Thanks for the input!

--  Matt

# April 4, 2008 1:18 PM

Backcountry Ski Mountaineer said:

Hey Matt,

Thanks for the detailed post, I appreciate the explanation and photos you have provided to me and the public on this subject in your blog and in the informative Oregonian story.  I ski area at Meadows and other areas from time to time, but these days I mostly ski and climb in the backcountry, including Cooper Spur, Wy'East, Snow Dome, Newton Creek and the South side route off the summit of Mt. Hood.  

I was wondering how your plans to do control in the Super Bowl area up to or near the boundary might trigger slides on the Wy'East face.  The safety of your patrollers and customers (including myself and my friends) is really important, but it is equally important for climbers who start at midnight to go up Wy'East in the winter.  I estimate that over a hundred people or more each winter travel on these routes.  As someone who also frequents the backcountry I am interested to learn more about how backcountry skiers and climbers will be protected.

Thanks for taking the public's input.

Cheers,

BSM

Matt's reply:

BSM:  Thanks for your post.  We share your concern about backcountry skiers, riders, climbers, etc.  Who are travelling above or adjacent to the MHM permit boundary.  We no more want to negatively impact the backcountry experience and safety adjacent to our permit boundary, than we wish for our operations and employee / guest safety to be negatively impacted by backcountry activities adjacent to our permit boundary (particularly above it!).  We will be pursuing a multi-faceted strategy to insure this does not occur including the establishment of buffer zones at our boundaries (both sides), and several different means of communication with the backcountry community.  From our meetings with backcountry groups, and many independent discussions with folks such as yourself, we are knitting together a proactive communications strategy now that would be in place before we commenced operations utilizing the howitzer.  Education and communication will be amoung the many cornerstones leading to the success of this initiative.  Stay tuned for more updates on this issue.

-- Matt.

# April 4, 2008 6:46 PM

Jason said:

Fantastic job with a very comprehensive description of the new AC plan, but I feel a bit conflicted. As a season pass holder, I am excited about the prospect of a safer, more frequently open Heather Canyon.  On the other hand, I often use Pea Gravel Ridge to access skiing into the Newton Creek drainage. Occasionally I do not access this terrain via the Heather Canyon runout, thus do not see the gate posted at the HRM lot.  I fully assume personal responsibility for risk assessment while skiing uncontrolled backcountry. However, I am concerned about "friendly fire" while skiing outside of (yet near) the MHM permit area.

Matt's reply:

Jason:  Thanks for the post.  We share your concern.  We will be establishing buffers on both sides of our boundaries where AC work may occur.  We will also be establishing several different communication outlets for Patrol to communicate with the backcountry community and vice versa concerning control operations and snow safety conditions within the MHM permit boundary.  Stay tuned for more on this topic in the coming months.

-- Matt

# April 4, 2008 7:21 PM

Mike said:

Will this signifigant cost mean an increase in ticket or pass prices?

Matt's reply:

Mike:  There will be an increase in ticket and pass prices next season.  That increase is not, however, directly related to this project alone.  Look for more information on pricing for next season during the month of August.

Thanks for your question,

 -- Matt.

# April 4, 2008 9:36 PM

Backcountry Skier said:

Hi:

Unlike many other mountains, Mt. Hood Meadows sits directly below a popular climbing route on Mt. Hood. Therefore, any avalanch control measures should ensure for the safety of those using the wilderness area.

For many years now I have climbed the faces above Mt. Hood Meadows, Wyeast, Newton Clark, and Black Spider - typically during the winter and early spring.  To approach such routes, in the winter, I have approached from Timberline Lodge, camps on the Palmer Glacier, and from Cooper's Spur.  I have not approached from Mount Hood Meadows personally, although I believe some do.  Accordingly, I leave early in the morning, and cross near the top of the ski boundary region.  Surely, on most occassions I am within 100 feet of the boundary, or so, depending on the destination.  

I am SERIOUSLY concerned of what effect the blasting of a shell within a rope length below my path will have on my safety in the wilderness zone.  If the snow pack is marginal, such as those time that the howitzer  will be used, then I could be crossing near the boundary and be greeted by a howitzer blast a mere rope length below me.  Unless there is clear visibility and climbers are using head lamps, there is no way for the operators of the howitzer to know climbers are in the area and account for their safety.  If the shell is but a couple hundred feet off target the climbers could get hit by the shell, or otherwise if the climbers are but a couple hundred feet lower than the boundary (which is unmarked) the climbers could get hit by the shell.  In any event, a large shell blast will likely cause the slopes to avalanche beyond the ski boundary, and thus in some cases cause the climbers to be injured.

It was but a few years ago, that a group of Mazama's climbing on West Crater Rim, caused a lip to break loose in an avalanche.  This resulted in injury to several climbers and killed one climber.  This breaking loose of a lip is minor in comparison to the results of a large howitzer blast.  The West Crater Rim is typically considered a relatively safe route up the mountain.  

So unlike Mammoth or other ski resorts where there is unlikely to be climbers on the faces above the blast zone, Mt. Hood is a unique situation where climbers have for decades frequently climbed the slopes in the wilderness zone above the ski area.  

I would like the impact study to specifically address the cross boundary effects of any such blast.  Also, I would like to see studies done to ensure that the distance from the blast zone is safe to ensure no cross boundary effects occur.  Otherwise, I am afraid that sometime in the next few years that Mt. Hood Meadows will be attempting to clear away snow and in the process kill or seriously injure a climber who is in the wilderness zone.  

Also, any such impact study should also address climbers approaching from Mt. Hood Meadows (a sign or two along Heather Canyon may suffice), Timberline Lodge (a sign there at the climbers station), a day or two advance warning for those camped up on the palmer glacier before the climb, those approaching from Cloud Cap, those approaching from Coopers Spur, and those approaching from Tilly Jane Hut (which I will approach from within two weeks from now).  

If there are chances for cross boundary avalanche effects, I believe that Mt. Hood Meadows should warn climbers of the potential from all known approaches.  Primarily, I am concerned for my safety and that of other climbers from unknown and uncertain howitzer blasts.

I would note that I was recently on Snoqualimie Mountain and a control blast occurred across the valley.  The result was a small avalanche that I barely got out of the way of.  There was no warning and it was quite scary.  

Best

Backcountry Skier

Matt's reply:

Backcountry Skier:  Wow, thanks for the excellent post!  These are exactly the type of comments, concerns and input we are looking for.  As mentioned in the blog, we are still gathering research and input, while along with additional input from the USFS is helping to guide our planning process for this project.  Let me respond to each of your fine points with our current thinking and addtional efforts.

First, just to keep things in perspective, the howitzer represents simply a change in delivery method from the same methods we have been using in upper HC for many years.  Second, your observation that Mt. Hood is " . . . unique situation where climbers have for decades frequently climbed the slopes in the wilderness zone above the ski area." is quite true.  I did this in the '70's and 80's with some buddies and it was always an awesome experience for us.  Third (really should first) is MHM's primary concern for the safety of our guests, employees and alpine enthusiasts recreating near the MHM permit boundary.  The first goal of this project is to help improve safety.

Now let's get into the details.  Your comments about cross boundary impacts are valid, and not exclusively from the backcountry enthusiasts' perspective.  We have experienced slides, both large and small, in upper HC set off by folks recreating on Wy'east above HC.  This is a valid concern for MHM and our guests.  The reality is, this has been a concern for us for sometime, mitigated primarily by the fact that typically only to perform AC work in upper HC on good visibility days when climbers, etc. can see and hear MHM Patrol and vice versa.  We have been carefully studying the proposed target zones and their proximity to the MHM permit boundary.  This study is particularly relevant during low visibility conditions.  While the concussion blast is similar to the hand charges we have been using for years, the howitzer is far more accurate than any other device available, particularly for the unique terrain and conditions in upper HC, but that is only meaningful if climbers and alpine enthusiasts recreating near the MHM boundary have ready access to avalanche control operations that may be occurring within the MHM permit boundary. 

We are working on a 200' foot buffer concept on both sides of the MHM permit boundary.  This would mean that control operations would not occur within 200' INSIDE the MHM permit boundary.  Concurrently, should alpine recreation enthusiasts need to travel near the MHM permit boundary during the 3 1/2 hours of scheduled AC operations, we would encourage them to stay a minimum of 200' above the MHM permit boundary.  Of course, it would also be prudent for those folks to contact the new MHM Patrol phone (see communications comments below) to alert MHM Patrol of the possibility they will be near the MHM permit boundary during AC operations.  Proactive communications and thoughtful cooperation have always been an important and integral part of the spirit of successful mountaineering, and this proposal would certainly be no exception!

Avalanche control targets within 200' of the MHM permit boundary would be established and maintained by MHM Patrol and USFS, along with detailed results logging to help ensure that we are consistently hitting what we are targetting and achieving the intended results.  On days when avalanche control operations are underway, such operations will only occur between approximately 5:00AM and 8:30AM.  This brings us to the significant communications efforts that are under design right now.  These efforts will likely include web postings (complete with maps and elevations), a 24/7 phone number with AC work updates and scheduled activities, and in boundary snow safety updates from MHM Patrol.  In addtion, signage at the MHM boundaries, as well as postings at MHM lodges and lower PHQ will be designed to provide current AC updates.  We will have more details on this aspect of the project later this summer and, as always, your input and ideas are most welcome.  The concept of making information readily available to alpine recreation enthusiasts who may be considering recreating near the MHM permit boundary of pending AC work within the MHM permit boundary is a critical priority.

I have forwarded your post on to our partners within the USFS to give them an opportunity for further comment on your fine post.

-- Matt.

 

# April 4, 2008 11:09 PM

I love pow said:

Thanks for the post!!  Its nice to see that all the posts are positive for once.

Matt's reply:

pow:  Well you know it's just the nature of blogging that not all topics can realistically generate all positive comments.  The input, positive, negative, humorous, whatever, is very helpful and helps guide our decision making and investment priorities.

Thanks for the support.

--  Matt

# April 5, 2008 1:55 PM

Brian Strait said:

Matt

Although we haven't met as yet, kudos to you for the blog of information regarding your quest for artillery. A great post indeed. Having run that gauntlet only a couple years ago, I can sincerely appreciate what you and the MHM crew are up against. Know that myself, and my crew at LVSSR, are ready willing and able to assist however, wherever, and whenever we can in order to see you get the tool that you (like me) probably should have had long ago.

Feel free to whistle up if we can help in any way.

Brian Strait

GM- Las Vegas Ski & Snowboard Resort

P.S. Please remind Tom Spangler he stills owes me a tank of Harley gas. I may have to ride up there this summer to collect... ;-)

Matt's reply:

Brian: Thank you for the post. It provides some insight into the "network" of artillery users - primarily other ski areas and highway departments - that are part of this program. Jackson Hole is a part of this program and our new General Manager Tom Spangler (formerly COO of Jackson Hole) is very familiar with the operation. I will pass this on to Tom - sounds like you're getting the better end of the deal considering the cost of a gallon gas nowadays.

--Matt

# April 5, 2008 8:00 PM

John said:

Any snow safety expert would readily advocate for avoidance over all other means of AC.  Let's not forget that MHM's efforts for more effective AC is all for the bottom line.  Safe, satisfied, and happy customers and employees = better bottom line.  

It truly is admirable that MHM is putting safety first but:

Will the heavy-handed Howitzer be safe for all users (for example, BC visitors in Newton Creek Canyon, many of whom are well on their way up Pea Gravel Ridge at first light)?

Is a Howitzer appropriate so close to the Mt Hood Wilderness boundary (they *are* loud and they're mounted in a way that the noise broadcasts far and wide)?

I'm disappointed that Mr Larsen sees the Howitzer need only through the lens of corporate MHM.

Matt's reply:

John:  Thanks for your post.  If safe, satisfied, and happy customers and employees leads to a better bottom line, well that would be a nice benefit in addition to having safe, satisfied, and happy customers and employees!

This proposed program would also include an expanded public awareness and communications plan throughout our permit area, including the boundaries.  We believe that any potential threat or risk to backcountry enthusiasts would not be any greater with a howitzer than it is now.  I am sure that you are aware that alpine resort skiers and riders pay for chairlift rides and to have safe terrain to play on, not avoid terrain as backcountry enthusiasts may need to do for safety.

The concussion noise from the howitzer will essentially be the same as it has been from the large hand charges that we have been using for many years.  If one ventures into the wilderness at the right time, they might hear explosions coming from non-wilderness much like they see and hear jet planes overhead.  I am sure that if you are in the Mt. Hood Wilderness near Paradise Park, you can hear the enginge brakes of trucks going down Laurel Hill grade on Highway 26.

-- Matt.  

# April 6, 2008 5:31 AM

Snowolf said:

Wow! Thanks for taking the time and effort to prepare and share all this information with everyone. Very few resorts include the clientel in such a way. Yet another reason that makes MHM "Best in the West"

As an avid backcountry snowboarder and holder of a level 1 avalanche certification, I can apreciate the challenges that you face in balancing safety with access to this great terrain. I think this another great step in the right direction and I look forward to more open days in Heather\Clark Canyons as well as possible changes in our gate policies to access out of bounds areas in the adjacent National Forest territory.

One question; Will this gun allow you to stabilize and control the snowpack higher up on Wy`East face above Superbowl to reduce the threat from higher up?

Matt's reply:

Snowolf:  Thanks for your post and your support.  Our targetting will remain within the MHM permit boundary.  Accordingly, we will not be targetting any terrain that is above the buffer that will be located 200' below our permit boundary.

Look for our post this coming summer concerning updated information about our boundary policy.

-- Matt

# April 6, 2008 6:53 AM

Sky said:

Stellar article.  Really well documented, described, informative and all but impossible not to understand.  Thank you for your dedication to safety at Meadows.  It truly is a unique mountain for snow safety.  What are Meadows' thoughts on skier safety in Private Reserve.

Sky

# April 6, 2008 8:40 AM

Fred Noble said:

Thanks Matt,

Your doing a geat job of keeping the public informed.

I think this kind of information should be posted IN THE LODGE in a big glass enclosed board.

I heard a lot of grumbling from the ill informed this season. I dug several pits during the storm cycles and can tell you that this is the worst year I have ever seen for weak layers in the snow pack.

In the heli-ski business we would rather have our clients angry at us for not taking them down a suspect slope than to have the clients family angry at us for bringing their loved one's out in a body bag.

The big gun will certainly make life easier for the ski patrol. My compliments to them for the fantastic job they did this season.

I am not sure if it is economically feasible but we have found great success dropping charges from a 206 helicopter. We have over 1000 square miles of ski terrain and it is the only way can get to the remote areas.

I am sure you are talking to all the experts in the avalanche field but if you need more contacts let me know.

Fred Noble

CMH Heli-Skiing

Matt's reply:

Fred: Thank you for your comments and insight. I appreciate and commend you for your approach to safety.  Performing AC work on Mt. Hood, even with a real powerful and maneuverable helicopter is dicey.  On a typical winter day during a snow cycle, or perhapes even just following one, funky winds, windshear, downdraft, and tough ground visibility make this exceptionally challenging for even the most experienced pilot and capable machine.  Remember a few years ago when the Blackhawk went down on Hood attempting a rescue on a bluebird day?  The pilot reported that windshear came out of nowhere while he was attempting to hover.  Even the Lifeflight pilots have reported tough conditions on certain days around the MHM base area!  It appears that, after evaluating all other credible alternatives, the howitzer is the safest and most reliable tool for the job we need to do within the unique MHM permit area.

Thanks for your continued support Fred.  Your knowledge, experience and level-headed thinking are always refreshing!

-- Matt.

# April 6, 2008 3:03 PM

Chris said:

I guess somebody has to be first so I will say this: This sounds like a lot of PR with lots of opportunities to slide out from all of this and blame it on somebody else. You are not effectively doing control work with the current tools you have to even be asking for a new method. I was a pro patroller for 10 years doing avi control 8 of those years at another area in the PNW. We did not use any such cannon because of the increased danger and lack of ability to accurately gage the results (is the slope now stable because of the shot?). I would imagine you will still need to send people out to the area to see if another shot is needed. Also what kind of "cost savings" are you willing to make and what will be the effect on safety of the mountain (climbers, backcountry skiers, etc)

I really call into question your avi program after last monday 3/31 when no major changes had occurred in the back country (no new snow, no transport, no major change in snow level lots of skier compaction the day before) the gates should have been open first thing but they were not. Then when Cascade finally got open I find 6 or 7 patrol folks sitting in the sun at the top of the chair. Why was the gate closed? Why were these folks not doing something about getting the gate open? What was the reason for closing the gate in the first place? Then when it did open the sign said Accordion OPEN only to get there and see the sign say closed. All of these impact the respect your rope line will get.

One last issue is that you really need to address your hard closure boundary. As an earlier post said you have the most enforced boundary in possibly the whole nation with out any respect for skier ability this really needs to change. Even if you did a Mt Baker style gate with prove your skills before you go.

P.S. I have done control work at Snowbird MHM is not as dangerous to the degree Snowbird is. You have to hang yourself out before you even drop your first charge at Snowbird. MHM has a Heather Ridge that gives ample security for doing your control work not to mention easy access for patrol.

Matt's reply:

Chris:  Thanks for your post.  Sorry for the tardy reply, but I wanted to get more detailed input from our AC Team. Before I get into to their comments, I need to tell you directly that our proposed updated avalanche control project is quite far from a PR stunt.  Next, I need to to tell you that I, along with our our AC Team, do not agree with your comments.

So let me summarize our team's thoughts regarding your comments and observations.  First off, we are curious to learn where you did your "avi control" for those eight years in the PNW?  As you hopefully read and saw in our blog, Heather Canyon is a different little area from most the resorts around the PNW and Utah.  Next, the howitzer alone will not fully stabilize the slopes in HC.  This would be another tool used, in addition to those already being used, to improve safety, effectiveness and timeliness.  When weather conditions permit, we will continue to test for slope stablity after control work has been performed using the same means and methods we have been using for many years. We don't understand your question about "cost savings".  If you have experience with a weapons program for AC, you know that cost savings is not a part of that program.  Improved safety, efficiency, effectiveness and timeliness are, however, included.  Regarding backcountry users, as discussed in other responses to this blog, we will be continually improving our communications means and methods with the many users of this great mountain.  Please keep in mind that our proposal includes only a change in the delivery sys